Anxiety And The Holiday Season (Episode 39)

SPEAKER_03 0:01

Around any holiday, but particularly in the dark cold months of winter that the holiday season really did kind of make me feel a bit worse.

SPEAKER_02 0:10

The added pressure of gathering and family when I was doing the hard lifting of my recovery work in the middle of a holiday season, and that was hard.

SPEAKER_03 0:18

You can't really escape it because it's around you shopping, online, scrolling. You can't really escape it. Failing as a dad in the holiday season, that would weigh on me.

SPEAKER_02 0:28

The need to do those compulsions may feel more tempting at this time of year. There's so much that can really rub your face in it. I would just hibernate for seven days or ten days, and then January 2nd would be the worst day of the year for me every year.

SPEAKER_03 0:44

It is not failure if you are anxious around this time of year. This is episode 38 entitled Holiday Season Anxiety. I'm Joshua Fletcher, also known as Anxiety Josh. And I'm a psychotherapist and author based in the UK. And I am proud to be co-host of this wonderful podcast.

SPEAKER_02 1:12

And I am Drew Linsalata. I am a graduate student in clinical mental health counseling, almost a licensed therapist in New York here in the U.S. I'm a former sufferer of anxiety and anxiety disorders and depression for many years, and a podcaster and author and on the subject, and here with my buddy Josh to talk about holiday season anxiety. Welcome, everybody.

SPEAKER_03 1:31

Big topic. Well, if you're a regular listener of the show, we like to celebrate the community wins through submissions on disorder.fm. And here's a good one that sets us up nicely for today's episode. Yeah, we're gonna start with this one, right? Let's do it.

SPEAKER_02 1:47

Come on. Hang on, DJ Drew is having a problem.

SPEAKER_06 1:52

Hi, Drew and Josh. My name is Rebecca. You can go ahead and use my name. I wanted to share a huge win and a did it anyway. So it was recently Thanksgiving, and last Thanksgiving, actually, I had a pretty traumatic um panic attack in front of my family for the first time, even though I have suffered with panic disorder, um anxiety, and agoraphobia for over a decade. This was actually the first time they've ever seen me in such a vulnerable position. So it was pretty scary. I did what I did best um back in the day and I ran away. And this year I was feeling really anxious as it came closer to Thanksgiving because it just reminded me of last year. So there was a lot of anticipatory anxiety going on and a lot of what ifs. But I'm happy to share that I went to Thanksgiving with my family yet again this year, and it was so much better. It was so peaceful, and I enjoyed it very, very much. And I really feel that I wouldn't have gotten this far if it weren't for your podcast and for all of the books that you guys have written. So I just wanted to say thank you. Thank you so much. Um, I know Drew always says a lot of the credit needs to be given to us. Um but I feel like part of it is thanks to you guys and for showing up every Friday. So I wanted to share that. Um, but yeah, thank you for all that you do, and thank you just for showing up for us every Friday. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 3:24

Awesome. That was great. Love it.

SPEAKER_03 3:26

Holiday specific. I love it. Well done. We don't have a studio audience today, they've all rang in sick. Um, but that's brilliant, and it sets us up for today's episode beautifully. Thank you for the kind words about our work and our books and stuff. Um talking of books. Speaking of books. Oh yes, yeah. Uh it's getting close now. March is when my latest book is out. Uh it's the best thing I've ever written. And it's gonna be out in well, globally, but in UK and US particularly, but you can order it wherever you are in the world. And I've got a special announcement. Maybe it's because I'm feeling festive. But if anyone pre-orders, and how does that make you feel, you just go on, pre-order it. Send me proof of purchase, and I will answer any anxiety question you may have. Um and I'll send it as a voice um audio clip as well. So you can send me whatever you want and I'll answer it as best as I can. Uh as a thank you for pre-ordering, uh, but also to help you as well if you've got any specific questions that Drew and I don't necessarily cover. Um it'll be time consuming, but it'll be fun because I love talking to the community. So yeah, if you pre-order and how does that make you feel by Joshua Fletcher, I'll answer any question you have. Anyway, enough of self-plugging.

SPEAKER_02 4:45

Let's talk about holiday screen anxiety. I'll tell you what, I will add to that. If you go to disorder.fm slash 39 in the show notes, I will put a link over to Josh's book. By the way, the book is called How Does That Make You Feel? Because it sounds like if you pre-order, and how does it make you feel to pre-order? No, the book is called, and how does that make you feel? How does it make you feel to pre-order? To pre-order that book. But uh Josh is doing the Bruce Almighty thing, like answering all of the questions.

SPEAKER_03 5:12

Jim Carrier, the keyboard is got a little slice of disordered in you uh, you know, just like, yeah. Uh and it's gonna be nice, and also I don't need to correct grammar errors as I'm as I'm answering them. Oh, that's a good point.

SPEAKER_02 5:24

Anyway, um very good. So let's talk about holiday season anxiety, because it is the holiday season in the West at least.

SPEAKER_03 5:32

Yeah, definitely. Um it for me when I was struggling, I used to around any holiday, but particularly in the dark, cold months of winter in the midst of an anxiety disorder, around a time where I was supposed to be celebrating family and joy. It was a huge time for Craig the Critic to come out, as well as feeling low and down and and trapped and feeling like I'm letting people down. And I just felt like I couldn't access life because my anxiety felt like you know, it was preventing me. And and I felt personally when I was going through a lot of anxiety, uh the holiday season really it did kind of make me feel a bit worse. I don't know about what about you, Drew.

SPEAKER_02 6:19

Yeah, I would tend to agree. For me, the time of year was tough. I've never been like a seasonal affective disorder guy, but maybe I I was a little bit back in those days when I was struggling. But for me, it was the the added pressure of gathering and family. And my kids were were small when I was doing the bulk of my the hard lifting of my recovery work in the middle of a holiday season. And that was hard because there was a lot of challenges ahead of me that I I felt like either had to retreat from or rise to meet. And it's hard. People in our community struggle with the increased get-togethers, the parties, the family gatherings, sometimes the meals, the food. If you have food triggers, and there's a lot going on this time of year that can that can be a challenge for people that listen to this podcast.

SPEAKER_03 7:04

Yeah, absolutely. I remember with um yeah, the eating one, like feeling anxious, being around people, um, social obligations, being around perhaps intense family members, um, and and and keeping up appearances. You know, if if you're a parent, you want to be joyful and you want to make the the the time special for your family, but it's really hard when you've got all this horrible doom feeling, intrusive thoughts, what ifs going through your head, uh, maybe there's a bit of depression or seasonal effective disorders to that. Um and I've yeah, I found that this is the time of year where Craig the Critic loves to come out. He loves to come out with his Christmas hat on, and he's like, right, you know, let's pick you apart for a bit. Um I also notice as well that the festive season and Craig the Critic, there's always a time for an analysis, comparative analysis of how you're doing, comparing you to everyone else. Maybe it's comparing yourself to how you were in the past or pre-anxiety disorder. And yeah, it can be sticky. And if you you know if you're dreading this time of year, um that's okay. You've got this, you need to be super kind to yourself.

SPEAKER_02 8:23

Yeah, that's really important, I think, because that critical thing, you're right. And I'm sorry we don't have the sound effects today either, but um I I think as a dad, failing as a dad in the holiday season, that would weigh on me. And if you know me outside of anxiety, I'm not that personality, but when I was an anxious person, oof, that hit really hard. There's failing as a as a parent during the holidays, or a partner, or a friend, or just not feeling holiday enough. Like, aren't I supposed to be merry and happy now? And it's a time of joy and no, I was not feeling happy and merry and joy. It was in survival mode. And I think I like your analysis thing too, because it's the end of the year rolling around, and it starts to make you think about like another year of this. When am I gonna get my life together? Oh boy. I'm I'm thinking about it now. That was hard, those were some hard days. And they were dark and they were cold. And like wow, a lot. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:20

Yeah. And it's this is for anyone like that. It's okay. Like, expect it. You know, just but it doesn't matter. I know that symbolically it's scary, but if you're in the middle of anxiety disorder, OCD, chronic anxiety, maybe your home life isn't great at the moment. Maybe you're on your own for Christmas or whatever the holidays that you celebrate over in the holiday season, or if even if you don't celebrate anything, you can't really escape it because it's around you and it's in shopping, online, scrolling, you can't really escape it. Um and for me personally, I uh it's alright, it's an alright time of the year. I struggle with grief around this time of year, and I try to run away from it as much. Not not out from you know, running away from anxiety. Uh you know that our philosophy, I bring that on, but there is that kind of urge to just kind of withdraw and hibernate a bit. And just be kind. And I think this is probably my biggest advice around this, just be kind. Don't compare yourself to a hundred a hundred percent version of yourself at this time of year. Um, also, you might get windows where you really enjoy it, and that's great, and enjoy that too, you know. Um, and that's alright. But remember, uh old habits die hard. So if you're a compulsive checker, ruminator, you know, seeking reassurance and doing those things, just be aware that the need to do those compulsions may feel more tempting at this time of year. But you've got this, you've got this.

SPEAKER_02 11:04

Yeah, I think it could be if you're in the middle of your recovery journey. I can't believe I said recovery journey, just kill me now. But so if you're in the middle of oh goodness, we're I'm out. Can't say cancel disorder. Um, I I think if you're in the middle of doing this work, I think one of the common things that I hear is people they feel like it falls apart a little during the holiday season because of these pressures. And they make the mistake of thinking, I don't know, I felt like I was making progress, and all of a sudden, you know, I'm or two days before Christmas and I feel like I'm right back to where I was. Because when you're under pressure like this, we get a little less resilient, we become a little less flexible, we get a little more rigid, we fall back into old patterns. It doesn't mean that your recovery has stopped or been destroyed at all. It just means that you're human and you're responding the way humans do to the added load. But that's okay. That's where that kindness and recognizing like this is just part of the process. I'm learning here too. Um I know I I had to work really hard to say, well, what can I take out of this? Sometimes it doesn't feel like you take anything out of it. But like, what can I take out of this? I I was okay. I took the kids shopping so I could buy their mom a Christmas present, and I and I did it. I did it. Like I had to take that out of it, even though it was like, this is terrifying to me, and I'm I'm the worst dad ever. But you have to really work hard to try and see what you're doing, even in the face of the fear. It still counts, even though you don't think even though you think you're going backwards, you didn't. That's one thing that I would definitely pass along. Uh yeah, yeah, I hear that a lot. Or memories of you know the holidays triggered like uh like Rebecca said and her did it anyway. The memory of struggling in Thanksgiving made it really hard to go into Thanksgiving. And that's normal. That's gonna happen. So expect that too. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:45

Yeah. Uh I what you're gonna realize as well, and it's something we've said in previous episodes, and again, it's a very self-compassionate thing. Remember, you can do it despite having anxiety, and you can do it with anxiety. And I think that is something you need to remember, remind yourself of. Like I can do it with and despite. It is not failure if you are anxious around this time of year.

SPEAKER_02 13:11

Yeah, that's true. I think it's really important. Because people also tend to, just the same way they do if they're going on a holiday, they have some event coming up. He'll come to folks like us and say, any tips for? Any tips for Christmas? Well, what sometimes what they're asking for is is there's Christmas is coming or whatever holiday is coming. It's it's right in front of me. It's only two weeks away. I don't feel ready for it. Can you tell me what to do so that I might not panic or feel anxious or have scary thoughts? And the answer is no, there is no special tips for holiday anxiety. It's just anxiety like any other. Just in this context, you may judge it much more harshly or judge yourself more harshly for having it. So it's it's important to recognize that when you're asking for, oh, they're gonna cool holiday anxiety, give me Christmas tips. Not really, the same tips we'd give you any day. It's just in the context of this season.

SPEAKER_03 13:58

Oh, I've got a Christmas tip that makes it sense. I've got a beautiful Christmas tip. Bring it. Yeah. So if you go onto Amazon or any bookstore and pre-order and how does that make you feel by Joshua Fletcher, that will cure all anxiety you've ever had.

SPEAKER_02 14:14

Clearly, clearly. This makes me feel like the old days when we would stream on Instagram and would just plug Ola. It was great. It is a good book, though. I don't mind this at all. It's good. You guys should like it.

SPEAKER_03 14:24

But uh, totally that's that's the end of the shame. Well, it's not the end of the shame. It's the end of the shame, it's a good book, man. Honestly, it's such a good book. I'm so proud of it. Anyway, uh also thinking about conventional anxieties and stresses at this time of time of year. No, you may be struggling financially. Maybe you're struggling with illness, maybe you're going through a tricky time at the moment. Um as Drew said before, this can build up and build up. I you know, you love using the analogy of the stress jug. This time of year can actually add to that. You could even the stress of just cooking um dinner for a lot of people, that's very stressful. Hosting, being a parent, being in maybe the stuff going on in your relationship that you're not that you don't like. Maybe you're just con something's confronting. Maybe you work a job that's really intense at this time of year, like one of Santa's elves. And you're just kind of remember that can add to that stress, Job. You know, so it always baffles me, you know, this New Year, New Year, New Year's resolution thing. It's like, no, now's not the time to be doing that. You know, now now's the time the week after New Year, I'm just do nothing. I'm like, wow, I need to recharge after that. Very emotionally charged and stressful time. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy it. And that's great. But positive stress is still stress as well. And don't forget that.

SPEAKER_02 15:53

Yeah, that's true. Happy, happy stress is still stress, it's still a demand, I think, is a good way to look at it. There's a demand on you. Sometimes that's a negative demand that you don't want, sometimes it's good stuff, but it's still a demand. It's stuff to for you to navigate through. So that's true. I I like that you mentioned the financial things because you know, listen, I'm not a big fan. It's a materialistic time of year in the West. I don't like that. Most of us, a lot of us don't like that. And then it can really point that out, especially for people in our community who tend to be historically under or unemployed. I'm sorry, um, because of their anxiety problems. The money issue can be really thrown in their face this time of year. I can't buy, you know, I I want to buy holiday gifts from my family or whatever. I want to participate in that tradition, and I'm I'm struggling because I'm not working, maybe, or I'm only working a little bit because of my anxiety. And I, you know, so there's so much that can really rub your face in it this time of year.

SPEAKER_03 16:43

Yeah, people put themselves in debt as well, don't they? Like, you know, oh, and uh I want I I'm on avoiding my inner critic, but actually I'm gonna, you know, get a credit card and put everything on that, even though I'm struggling because I don't want to feel like a bad family member, a bad parent, etc. And ma'am, you don't need to do that. It's okay. Do the best of what you can, particularly it's been a tricky. I don't know what it's like in the States. In the UK, it's been a cost of living crisis for a while. Um, lots of people getting themselves into debt, some people struggling to even pay the heating bill, and you know, then they've got the added pressure of this. And then if they have an anxiety disorder as well, but all that stress, the amygdala's gonna be like, Why are you so stressed? You know, have some intrusive thoughts because he's here's my suggestions as to what I think's going on, which doesn't help. You know, here's a sense of doom every morning, and by the way, it's gonna be dark in the mornings and cold, so that sense of doom is gonna feel uh and may you may perceive it differently. Yeah, you've got to kind of if you're really stuck in the middle of anxiety, you've got to be kind of um you know, kind of prepared for it, you know. I know it sounds a bit miserable and cynical, and for some people is this, they'll be like, No, I absolutely love Christmas time. You know, it's a it's a break, you know. I put on the Hallmark channel and watch, you know, uh finance banker who left her village, goes to the city, but feels like there's something missing in her life. So she goes has to go back home, right? Goes home, goes back home and reconnects with herself through the meanings of Christmas and a handsome, tall, chiseled man who just happened to go to school with her, and they connect over the worst flirtation you'll ever see.

SPEAKER_02 18:27

And it's it's doomed to failure because she's a city person now. She's in finance. I gotta go back to my city job in finance, and he's a farm boy and has to remind her of what's really important in life. Like, we should totally work for the Hallmark channel. We just wrote a whole movie in like 45 seconds.

SPEAKER_03 18:41

Yeah, and we could do it, and you just need a little kind of melodic piano in the background.

SPEAKER_02 18:46

Like we could totally do this. There's no hey, so Hallmark, if you're listening, go to disorder.f and send us a voicemail and we'll get on it for you right away. The royalties will be we'll we'll be reasonable with that royalty. I think you know it's cool. I like how you did mention it, it's okay to enjoy it also for some people. And this is interesting, the week between Christmas and New Year's, in my personal experience to share some of that, was huge for me. It was a break. It was the world said it's okay to do nothing for that week. And oh my goodness. For someone with panic disorder and agoraphobia who was feeling kind of depressed, that was like a gift. So my kids would get off the bus like the day before Christmas Eve, and you knew school is closed till you know January 2nd or whatever day it was, there's a break, everyone's off from work, or a lot of people are off from work if we're fortunate enough to have that situation. And it was an excuse. The world was happy for me to be agoraphobic. And if you are enjoying that week, that's a good point. I'm glad you brought that up. I usually try and talk about this every every holiday season. Just be mindful of that. It's okay to enjoy the break and take the rest. It's a good thing to have it. But I would get to the point where I would just hibernate for seven days or ten days or whatever it was, and then January 2nd or January 3rd would be the worst day of the year for me every year. And it didn't have to be that way. What a huge mistake that was in retrospect. Be careful about that trap. Enjoy it. I enjoyed the break, but note that when the world excuses your avoidance for a week or two, you can feel like, oh no, I got a tidal wave after the holidays.

unknown 20:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:26

You go back to the world.

SPEAKER_03 20:27

Oh no. Absolutely, yeah. Was hard. Yeah, it's one of those. I remember Yeah, I remember we were talking about the gear analogy, weren't we, not so long ago. Like a lot of it for me was particularly going around the country, seeing family members, stuff like that. I was a lot, a lot of me was in fifth gear. And then I would hit that period where I don't have to do much, and I'd wonder why I was getting all these intrusive thoughts and horrible things. Because I was in fifth gear, and then I didn't really have to do anything in those days. And don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the respite, but then it was like, don't be surprised if your brain is firing off, you know, uh at this time of year because you've been in fifth gear. Because again, positive stress is still stress. So like I love seeing family, love seeing friends in the holiday season, but it does take it out of you, you know, and then you're doing that, you're overeating, and you're smashing chocolate in my face and drinking too much mold wine and whiskey, and then I'm and I'm just like, wow, yeah, this my butt, my body's actually taking a lot here.

SPEAKER_02 21:32

Yeah, yeah. I would get to the end of the holiday season and and all of that stuff, and and just the day after the when the world started back up, at least here in the States, you know, January 2nd, January 3rd, whatever, on a good day, New Year's Day would be on a Friday, and then I would still get like the Saturday and Sunday. And then Sunday would be so horrible. The anticipation, the anticipatory anxiety was huge because that's it. Everybody's back to work, and like the world is back in business, and oh my goodness, that. Was so hard. And yes, you ate too much and gained some weight. And but the flip side too, we should like our gad overthinkers can't sit still. I don't like to be quiet. I need to be running. Those people, that's hard too. Because in that week, when things do naturally slow down, if you work for a business that shuts down or you don't have to go to work, some of those folks will struggle because I'm not busy. And if I'm not busy, I feel my thoughts and my anxiety comes up. So that's sometimes a holiday struggle too. Because the break factors in. So you need both sides of this. I'm not busy. I've had people when I talk about like the, you know, don't hibernate during the break, I've had a lot of people say, no, but I'm the opposite. I get anxious during the break because I'm not running all the time. I don't have to get up and run around all day, which is you know, trying to run away from how they feel or their anxiety. So man, the holidays can bring it in all forms here. The more I talk about this, the more I'm like, we should just cancel the holidays. This sucks.

SPEAKER_03 22:58

A lot. If you find yourself enjoying holidays, that's great. You know, and we celebrate that with you. Um, I know what I'll be doing. I'll usually just cue up my Muppets Christmas, Carol, um, and then another very famous uh Christmas movie. You really think you have a chance against us, Mr. Cowboy?

SPEAKER_02 23:24

It diehard, by the way. If you listen to Disorder and you don't think that Die Hard is a Christmas movie, we're sorry to see you go. Yes. There are two kinds of two kinds of people in this world, those who know that Die Hard is a Christmas movie and those who are wrong. Get a few one-star reviews.

SPEAKER_03 23:39

Just like listen to every episode. These guys think Die Hard is a Christmas movie. Yeah. Listen to every episode. I found it very helpful. Uh, but until they said that the Die Hard was a Christmas movie, I'm at one star. I'm out. Uh thank you for the recent reviews, by the way. That really really uh makes us cheers us up. You know, some lovely reviews we've had on Apple and Spotify. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 23:58

Every week I feel like we get more, so thank you guys. It really is helping the podcast. And it's grow the podcast is growing faster now. We can see it in the stats. So it's it's actually making a difference. Thank you.

unknown 24:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:08

But the you know, holiday traditions, sometimes we can fall back on those. For me, yes, sometimes Die Hard is a Christmas movie. They're the Christmas National Lampoon, Christmas Vacation. Like I have my my that's one of my favorites. Ridiculous, stupid film. Chevy Chase, yeah. He goes in a big rant at the end when he's unhinged. He just I like this. So you can find ways to find little bits of enjoyment for sure. Even in my worst, I could find refuge in watching Die Hard again. Oh, oh, oh. Now I have a machine gun. Ho, ho, ho. Like my favorite favorite line in that movie. So look for those things, you know, look for them. They're still there. Whatever your pressure is or your holiday-triggered anxiety is, look for those things because they're still there. And do the best you can to indulge with them. And for me, that was a time when I could make my anxiety not the most important thing in the room. I'm gonna watch Christmas Vacation now and enjoy that. Even my anxious brain is just like, no, no, no, I'm watching this movie now. That was really helpful.

SPEAKER_03 25:10

Yeah, I think as well, with if you're struggling someone who struggles with inwards focus anxiety and you're constantly threat monitoring and doing these things. Um, my advice to you is actually simulate it. Simulate what non-anxious you would do through through through the holidays. Okay, I might not not be feeling like I'm fully engaged in this activity or playing Cludo family or watching Die Hard, and I feel like my attention keeps going internal and it when I'm and it feels like I'm automatically ruminating. Just gently grab your attention and bring it back. You know, it's almost like a game of simulation. I'm gonna simulate Christmas here. Because as we know, with a lot of exposure therapy and a lot of breaking old habits, you know, behave how you want to feel is so important. And you might not necessarily feel it, but you are signalling to the brain that this is what you like to do. The rational brain is going, oh this is what I would ideally like to be doing. Yes, my feelings may not match up to this right now, but I know if I keep doing this, I will. And that's what I had to do. Spent ver several uh holiday seasons just feeling rubbish. But ever as I started to kind of like, no, this is what I'm gonna do now, and this applies to all events. So, you know, uh, I did this at like weddings and parties and and things like that. And I'm gonna behave how I want to feel. I might not feel like I want to do it, but I'm gonna allow my rational brain and my behavior to signal that no, this is what I'd like in the future. And actually, on a lot of the times, if you do it on the day, suddenly the brain gets in. It's like, all right, okay, and you can actually enjoy some of that on the day as well.

SPEAKER_02 26:49

Yeah, and we see that all the time in this community. People who are feeling they're maybe their home house bound agoraphobics, but they really want to go to this concert and they wind up having a great time. Now they they're struggling the next day again, that's fine, but they do get caught up and all of a sudden they're externally focused for something that just became more important than their anxiety, and they have a great night at a concert. That can happen. Yes. And I we've talked about this in previous previous episodes, as crazy as it sounds, and as cliche as it is, a lot of recovery sometimes is literally fake it till you make it. Yeah, I hate that, but it is true. I'm gonna act as if I'm okay, and then over time I can be okay because I did that. Yeah, so it makes it works. Yeah, that works. Actually, it works for exactly. You can't pretend to be yeah, yeah, that's exactly you can't pretend to be a surgeon and then become a surgeon that way. But the this is a good reason. I mean, I mean hopefully don't operate on me if that's what you're doing. But I I think in our context, it actually does matter. So sometimes during the holidays, you just have to act holiday, even though you feel like you don't want to, or you feel like it's unsafe or risky. We should probably validate that. People doing what we're saying right now sometimes feels very unsafe, very dangerous, risky, or even reckless. But you're learning that it's not when you do it this way.

SPEAKER_03 28:05

Yeah, and when you fake it till you make it, you are abandoning a lot of old habits because there's a lot of those habits and behaviors that are keeping you in the cycle of anxiety. So even if you play the game, I'm gonna fake it till I make it, actually, your attention's gone, your focus is gone, your your drives have gone, you you have a you have an anchor point to remind yourself what you should be doing. And each time you're just stopping all these neuropathways from firing off like they do every single day down the same roots in your brain, you're like, no, if I'm fake it till I make it today, I'm actually changing this habit. And then observe what happens during that, you know. Yeah, I'm not saying be inauthentic or all that, but like tap into that part of you that knows you you would access this. And this is why I always say, you know, kind of do what non-anxious you would do, you know, and then apply that principle to that. Definitely.

SPEAKER_02 28:55

I love don't be unauthentic is really good because I've heard people say, Am I supposed to like not be myself? Well, who which one is yourself? Is yourself the person who like is terrified to eat the turkey because you only care that you might have become allergic to turkey in the last four hours and and therefore you have to act as if you're in mortal danger because of turkey? Or is yourself the person who would sit around the table with your family and eat turkey and enjoy the company? So I think it's hard. People sometimes are like, well, I feel like I'm not being authentic if I pretend that I'm being no, no. The inauthentic part of you is the the afraid part that you're trying to get away from. So in a way, I feel like when you fake it like till you make it, you're you're honoring the authentic part of you and and bringing it back out, I think. That's important. Absolutely because a lot of people misconstrue that.

SPEAKER_03 29:43

That's such a good point, Drew. Yeah. Um you're on you're honoring that part of you that you know is exists. Um yeah, I could, yeah, that's it. Yeah, still there. I'm gonna steal that part.

SPEAKER_02 29:53

Yeah, yeah. It was a real revelation for me when people asked me that, but I feel like I'm not being authentic. I'm pretending I'm faking it with my a lot of times with family too, I'm faking it with my grandchildren, I'm faking it around my kids. So that's all right. You're you're you're bringing that old you back out again that you want to be. That you're not faking, you're practicing. There's a difference.

SPEAKER_03 30:15

I think we should do an episode on that sometime. Um I think that's a good topic. Should we move on to some community stuff? Uh we should. We've got um a a voicemail did it anyway. Should we go check that out? Yeah, let's do it. Ready? Let's play now.

SPEAKER_05 30:32

Hi there, Josh and Drew. I'm Hannah from Nottingham, England, and I've got a slightly unconventional did it anyway for you. My Did It Anyway is surviving and thriving this year despite having awful anxiety. This year I've faced CPDR, health anxiety, and GAD, and I also lost a job due to all of this too. Yet despite all this, I've found a new job with a promotion, attended boomer's music festivals and gigs, put on my own gigs, made new friend groups and went through CPT therapy, despite facing the intensity of these anxiety disorders. Thank you so much for your podcasts and your books, Josh, as without them I wouldn't have been able to willfully tolerate as much as I have done. And I just want to prove to anyone that feels the intensity and the massive grasp that anxiety, and especially something as bloody horrible as DPDR does to you like you can get through it, you can survive it. No matter how many times your brain's gonna be like, Oh, you're gonna die, oh you're gonna pass out. You won't. I've been believing that since March of this year, and I haven't. Um yeah, thank you so much for everything you guys do. Um, really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_03 31:39

It's another great did it anyway. Superb, superb. Um, brilliant. It reminds me of the attitude shift, um, Drew, that we spoke about. Um there's like, oh no, there's a shift in attitude, bring it on, bring on that uncertainty. I I don't believe that this is gonna happen now. So good. Thank you, Hannah, and Hannah. That was amazing. And uh yeah, we hope that you can long term did it anyway. I like that.

SPEAKER_02 32:03

That was like a stretched out to not a long recording. I mean, I did it anyway over this year. Yeah, absolutely, yeah. Brilliant. Uh, do we have any questions? I think we have voicemail. We do have a question. Should we take a voicemail question? Let's do that one now, too. We're on a roll, let's do it.

SPEAKER_00 32:20

Hi, Drew and Josh. Uh, my name is Emily. Um I'm wondering how to go about this. Um, I've had this anxiety about eating. And it is that this fear that if I go too long without eating, that I'm not gonna be helping my anxiety. I'm going to be increasing my anxiety by not eating and somehow not be able to cope with that.

SPEAKER_01 32:54

Um, how should I approach this?

SPEAKER_02 32:59

Great question. Can I take that one? Because that was me. So, Emily, thank you. It's it's a great question. It's actually a common concern. People either stop eating when they're anxious or they eat more. That's incredibly common response. I was I was Emily. So for me, I would be constantly worried that like, oh, like if I go too long between eating, it's gonna I'll feel different. I'm gonna start to get anxious. Now I understand she's being a little more specific. I'm not I'm not helping my recovery if I don't eat. But I think the best advice is when you are aware of the habit, I'm compulsively eating. You know, I I won't allow myself to go more than two hours without eating because otherwise I think I'm not gonna get better. That's the time that you have to start to say, wait, I'm doing that thing again. And for me, it was, oh, I'm doing that thing again, where I'm assuming that if I get hungry, it means that I'm panicking. So I'm gonna have to let that be there. Let me give myself 10 minutes before I eat. Then let me give myself 15. You know, don't deprive yourself, don't starve yourself. But I think the same would apply for Emily here. Like, if you think that you have to eat every 90 minutes so that you recover, well then try eating every hundred minutes and try eating every 120 minutes. Like you have to teach your brain that, like, oh, I'm wrong about this. Um, it it's not it sounds crazy, but that is the way I had to do it. And I think this is that interesting thing that's that it's like if I don't sleep enough, I won't recover. If I don't fuel my body enough, I won't recover, if I don't meditate enough, I won't recover. That sounds like this. It just happens to be food related.

SPEAKER_03 34:31

Yeah, yeah. And I think in the question there, it was like, if I don't do X, I won't get better. And it's like, well, it sounds like if I don't do X, I'm gonna get anxious. Um obviously, you know, disclaimer if you have a uh history of eating disorders and things, you know, eat food, you know, absolutely, and eat the you know, the the the nutritious the amount of nutrition that you need every day. Uh but this sounds like oh, I'm compulsively need to eat just in case I get anxious. And the reason why is because when we get hungry, our blood sugars change and we can feel irritable and lightheaded, and hey, guess what? They're symptoms that mimic a lot of anxious states. So people are actually afraid to be hungry because it mimics anxiety itself. Uh, in that case, I echo what True said, which is just delay it for a bit, use that as your exposure. You're not starving yourself. Please eat the same that the amount of food that you should do in a day. But if you're saying, Oh, what, oh, if I don't eat this sandwich at this precise moment, um I'm I'm gonna get anxious, well then that's the exposure. Okay, sit with sit with feelings for a little bit, 10-15 minutes, and then you know, um, and go and go that way. Um, because ultimately, yeah, you don't want those compulsive safety behaviors from stopping you, stopping you getting the credit. Yeah, I I would agree with that.

SPEAKER_02 35:57

I think sometimes it's you know, we talked about this stuff without trying to be too critical, but there's a lot of wellness advice out there that just doesn't apply to our community. We use the term anxiety disorder informed. And I think food, we'll probably do a whole episode on on that sort of stuff at some point where we can do it without getting too condescending and and you know snarky about it, I guess. But it's it's tough because we're surrounded with advice, especially on the internet, about this is how you fuel your body and this is the optimal. I've seen articles, they're out there. We can go on YouTube right now and probably find 10 videos that have a hundred thousand views at least. These are the five best foods for anxiety. I know they're there, and that can drive an anxious person into that thing where it's like, I must only eat these things and I must eat in this amount of time, and I can, or I won't get better. Well, I've been it's okay.

SPEAKER_03 36:43

You have to risk it. Yeah, just mashing magnesium in my mouth and all these things. And it's like yeah, like a waste of time and money.

SPEAKER_02 36:52

Yeah, yeah. And doing some really difficult things, but it feels like a risk. So when Josh says prolong it a little bit, when I say, Well, prolong you to sit with that feeling a little bit, it feels really wrong to do that. Like, this is crazy. I'm supposed to be stopping panic. How can I just allow it to happen by not eating? And I'm like, oh, wait, look what I'm doing. It really brought it to light.

SPEAKER_03 37:12

The CBT principle. If you went to a CBT therapist for an anxiety disorder and you said, I'm afraid to not eat, you know, at a specific time just in case you get anxious. The CBT therapist will go, Well, that's what we need to look at then. You know, let's see what happens. Then that's what we gotta do. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it's kind of tough. I get it. Be kind to yourself, everyone. And um, yeah, I look forward to catching up with you next time. Like I said, we're here every Friday. Um, if you do pre-order the book and how does that make you feel, just let me know. Email me or send me a DM and I'll answer your question.

SPEAKER_02 37:49

Absolutely. If you head on over to disorder.fm, you can send us an email. If you want to send Josh an email that way, he'll get it. Um, you could send us email questions, you could send us email did it anyways, you could send us voicemails, and then don't re don't forget if you're listening to the podcast, maybe maybe leave a little review on Apple or Spotify, it helps us out. Thanks for coming by with us every week. We appreciate you guys.